To traditional Labour voters and those that care about workers rights and the NHS who have voted Labour in the past and are planning to vote Conservative at the 2010 general election. I don’t think Labour’s done a particularly good job in many areas of government, but they do have their successes as well like […]
Continue Reading Why I’ll Never Vote Conservative at a General Election
What you should ask is “Would the Tories have spent like a sailor and left the country with the finances this country has probably ever had”? And the answer is a resounding “no”. Yes, with all the things you list, Labour threw a hell of a party, but the hangover’s here and it’s going to be with us – and the younger generation – for years and even decades to come. Labour always ruins the economy. It’s about time we say “never again”.
View Comment
The Labour Party did not ruin the economy, ruined implies it’s beyond recovery, which it isn’t: growth dropped a few %, not exactly the end of the British way of life, we’ll recover.
The economy was damaged by the credit crunch that was a world wide problem starting with American banks (US banks caused most of the damage) with creating toxic debts. The banks sold bad loans (mortgages people couldn’t afford), packaged groups of mortgages into investment opportunities and sold them on as safe investments to clear their books of debt. Then sold more bad loans, packaged them as safe investments….. eventually the s##t hit the fan when a lot of people started to default on the loans, they became toxic.
So to be accurate bankers damaged the economies of the world, not the current government.
The Labour Party did not throw “a hell of a party”, the Labour party invested in areas it believes are important like the NHS (almost tripled the investment).
Do I agree with everything the Labour party has done and wants to do, no way.
The Labour party has a tendency to erode our civil liberties, some of which I agree with (I’d like CTV on every street), some I don’t like the way they’ve gone way over the top responding to the threat of terrorism: is it just me or is the answer to the threat of terrorism worse than the odd terrorist act?
You can’t take a photo in London without a copper asking you what you are doing, yet Google maps has street level maps of the UK (that makes a lot of sense).
We didn’t have anything like what we have now when the IRA was blowing things up all the time. The IRA was a much bigger threat than the current terrorists that have tried to attack us. Is it just me or is the average terrorist a bit slow in the brain department, it would be so EASY to cause havoc in Britain with the simplest of terrorist acts that don’t require blowing yourself up!
David
View Comment
Would the Conservatives have borrowed our way out of recession?
At the time the Labour party was talking about the economic stimulus package: massive government borrowing basically to keep the economy from free falling.
Despite every major economy deciding to take the same approach as Labour, the Conservatives opposed the concept of borrowing to grow our way out of a recession, they wanted to cut spending immediately, have the British economy and people take the economic pain and then rebuild from what was left.
During the last recession that was caused by the Conservatives poor management of the economy, the Tories response was to cut our way out of recession (what they wanted to do when the credit crunch hit). This meant massive unemployment, ridiculously high interest rates (it peaked at 15% under the Tories!!!!) and under investment in all public services.
Some areas of the country never recovered from the Tory recession of the 90s.
The above tactic worked, but the cost was a lost generation of youth to long term unemployment and significant damage to the public sector (NHS, education, everything was under invested!) that’s taken the Labour party over two terms in government to put right and then build on.
The Conservatives again wanted to cut our way out of recession, which would have worked, but like in the 90s the cost would have been under investment in public services, mass unemployment and we’d still have to go into some debt (would almost certainly have been less than we have now).
I don’t know if Labours current economic plan of borrowing to grow our way out of recession will be best long term (it’s a BIG debt), indications are it’s working. The borrowing protects public sector workers from the unemployment lines, that knocks on to the private sector keeping more money in the economy and more people in work, but it can’t go on indefinitely, at a point government borrowing has to stop and the debt has to be reduced, this will cost some jobs and investment in the public sector has to be lost.
My understanding is when the recovering economy is strong enough (when we have reasonable growth: expected in 2011) to cope with more unemployment and less investment in the public sector. The Labour government would reduce borrowing and reduce the support to the economy and we’ll then feel some of the economic pain we’ve avoided because of government borrowing.
The theory is because the borrowing results in economic growth that we wouldn’t get under the Tories plan, the overall damage to the economy and British people is less because it’s spread over time and we can cope with it better.
If Labour’s plan works (and I hope it does), the damage to British people and the economy will be spread over a decade plus rather than over night with the Tories plans! Imagine what would have happened to property prices under the Conservatives! Under Labour’s plan property prices have dropped, but not that much considering we had a recession.
The difference between the Conservatives and Labour plan is do we take the economic pain ASAP and build our way back or try to protect what we have and spread the economic damage over a long period of time.
I prefer Labours plan to protect what we have and spread the pain, so I’m glad the Labour party was in power when the credit crunch hit.
For the future do we want a Conservative shadow government that still wants to cut quite harshly to reduce the deficit ASAP that will result in under investment in the public sector and more unemployment and a strong chance of pushing us back into negative growth (double dip recession). Or a Labour government that still wants to spread the damage over time, Labour plan to start the cuts in 2011 when we have a stronger economy (more growth), it’s going to hurt, but not as much as the Conservatives plan.
David
View Comment
with all respects I have never read so much rubbish,vote labour, vote destruction, we already have mr bean as a foreign secretary, ed balls as a possible chancellor, now mr bliar coming back, its a circus, another pay rise for them when others are taking a pay cuts, when this so called recession started the best idea would of been to pay all existing mortgages off, the cost 23 billion, dont laugh, its true, work it out yourself, now we are so much in debt thanks to the mishandling of our affairs by the terrible twins brown and bliar , my grandchildren will always be in debt, anyone remember when we could walk to the station and people said ” good morning ” it does not happen now its doom and gloom everywhere even if you understand the language, shops closing in towns, immigration out of control, the system being cheated everywhere, old people cant afford heating and sometimes food, hospital with doctors and staff who cant speak english, patients put in broom cupboards, its not civilised, wake up you sleepers give someone else a chance lets make britain great, where are the 20 mph speed limits near schools, 3600 enquiries costing millions since bodger brown came in unelected, speak english before being allowed here, yobs marched to cash points to pay fines, just some unfulfilled promises, all night drinking, surely if you cant drink enough between 6 and 11 pm you need help, i have a neighbour with 2 daughters, 2 new cars yet no command of our language, how did they get here, i am so disgusted the way this country has been run for the last decade i hope my family get away from it all, i am lucky i have travelled the world and we are considered a joke everywhere, its time to stop all the jokes and get us on the straight and narrow, if anyone remembers what that was like that. where are the statesmen who run the country instead of all the young graduates who think its a meal ticket being in the house of commons, which it is of course it is, Rip labourites, dont forget the united representatives will still get their wages when the strikers wont. i have flown ba for 23 years, never again, my son has just cancelled his trip with them to joburg, now going with with emirates, so dream on strikers soon no one will fly with you.
View Comment
I wouldn’t go as far as to say Britain is a joke. I am also well travelled and we are a well respected country. But I do agree about Labour. While they have done some good things, I fundamentally disagree with their style and approach to government.
I live in Swindon North a marginal seat held by Labour with a 3.12% lead over the Conservatives, money has in various forms been thrown at the constituency but all misdirected, poorly managed and ineffective. They use borrowing to fund such financial input, but with limited if any benefit.
1/3 of the population is employed by the government, and that not economic growth or prosperity has kept unemployment figures down. It is artificial employment and can not be sustained at current levels without increasing national and domestic debt further. While I agree that the NHS, and education among other services should not face drastic cuts, neither do the Conservative Party. They do however believe that government has got too big, which it has and therefore certain elements should be starved of funding, in particular expenisive Quango’s.
I believe that a Conservative government could and if elected will be great for Britain. I feel that taxation has got out of hand, not simply on income but also on fuel 70p per litre. (£1.10) Labour through their taxation take unfair levels of hard earned money from all levels of society. At the poorer end they tax with one hand then give very little back in the form of support. “Middle Britain” are keeping the government coffers afloat, yet they are unfairly treated in many aspects of everyday life. Poor schools, lack of university funding, more tax on consumer goods and inheritance of property.
Fair enough if you are an ardent Trade Unionist with little or no qualifications, then I would say don’t vote Conservative. However, if you have skills and qualifications that are being overlooked by a Labour government too intent on giving university places and jobs to people based on gender or colour of their skin, not on merit, I would say….
VOTE FOR FAIRNESS ,VOTE CONSERVATIVE
View Comment
hello james, well written although not all fact, i will just say i lived in swindon, on green meadow estate, i well remember red robbo and the strikes the ruination of BL, 300 a side football matches. well i cant list here the countries i have lived and worked in, but my experiences are that since about 1990 this country is considered a joke, we are a meal ticket for all and sundry, what other country would stand for it, we are not allowed to express an opinion any more.
View Comment
Another doomsayer putting down their own country, all you missed above is we’ve lost the Great in Great Britain!
The way people like you talk about Britain we should all leave to all those awesome countries out there that are so much better. Have you ever considered this sort of attitude results in self fulfilling prophesies, believe something like this long enough and it could become true!!!
If it’s so bad here and you’ve travelled the world, why not list all the better countries to live and why they are better?
David
View Comment
Not to sure you read that, from you answer I said “I wouldn’t say Britain was joke!”
At least you confronted my beliefs, well thought out counter-argument must have taken a lot of thought. Can I ask you some questions!
How old are you?
What qualifications do you have?
And what are you political view based on?
Answer this one, and earn some credibility.
View Comment
You’ve misunderstood the comments threading. My response was to “Jamie Stewart”.
If you want to reply to a specific comment, easiest way is click the Reply link at the bottom of that comment first, that way it goes below that comment (like this comment is now below yours, you’ll note it’s also a little indented to the right). Otherwise I have to work out if a comment is stand alone or should be threaded and move it manually.
Now as it happens, though I disagree with some of the Conservative parts of your comment for example “I believe that a Conservative government could and if elected will be great for Britain.”. I don’t have an issue with your comment per se, I agree with some of it, I don’t see the Conservatives as the answer though.
And to answer your questions.
39
Studied genetics at University, but for health reasons couldn’t finish my degree or follow my career in science research. Currently self employed running a successful online business.
That last questions a hard one. Mostly personal experience and over the last year research for this website.
And your answers to your questions?
BTW I edited your comment “I would say Britain” To I wouldn’t say Britain” to take into account the typo you’d corrected, then deleted the comment about the typo as it was no longer needed.
David
View Comment
That last comment would seem a little hard hitting now. Sorry about that.
18
A Level History, Government & Politics and Geography.
Going to study History at University in September.
Research, experience and education.
Could you give your views on some of my points earlier, in particular in regards to merit based success, and taxation!
Sorry once more.
View Comment
No worries, you misunderstood the threading, had I said what you thought I’d said about your comment would have been a fair response.
Anyway, at your age (18) I voted Conservative, but at the time was thinking quite selfishly. Expected I’d be making a lot of money one day and didn’t want to pay any of it out as tax. I grew up, got a conscience and decent education and voted Labour.
If you’ve read my comments on this site (it’s my site BTW) you’ll know I’m not impressed with the current Labour government and if a better alternative to Labour was available who could win I’d vote for them. I see the Conservatives a heck of a lot worse than Labour, I just don’t like what Conservatives stand for, it’s selfishness, hence why I’d never vote for them.
Regarding merit based success and taxation.
The Conservatives approach is based on EVERYONE can do well if they work hard and if you aren’t doing well, it’s probably your own fault, so tough. Not everyone in life even has the option to do well in life, we can all say if you work hard, get on your bike sort of thing you’ll succeed etc… but there’s always going to be a large number of people (the majority IMO) who don’t do exceptionally well in life (well enough to have saved for old age or even to pay for their children to go to University without government help for example) and despite working hard are just getting by, that’s the nature of life in a society like ours: a relatively small number of people do exceptionally well and the rest don’t.
I don’t have a problem with people doing exceptionally well, one day I plan to be one of them, but government should represent the majority and I don’t see that as describing the Conservatives. I’m in a position where I can afford to pay for my kids to go to University and have financial plans for old age.
Where I stand is those who deserve help should be helped and those that don’t deserve help, well tough. That would result in less help than Labour gives, (there are those that get help that IMO shouldn’t) but more than the Conservatives give. I’m closer to Labour than Conservatives and to be honest would rather have a government that helps too many people rather than not enough.
I don’t have an issue with the level of taxation, I’m more concerned at quality of life for the majority of hard working people. If I had control of government I’d probably keep the same level of taxation, but use it in different areas to help those that deserve help and not waste tax payers money on people who for whatever reason refuse to help themselves. How many kids from deprived backgrounds with a gift (music, science, art…) who have never done anything wrong could have a great start in life AND aid society in the future with the money wasted on idiots who take drugs and destroy their lives!
David
View Comment
I see your point disagree, I am from a very modest background, and have seen for myself how hard work can lead to success.
My parents had less of an opportunity in life that most people yet through hard work, and a desire to succeed they have.
I have seen this with many of my friends families. They have made huge sacrifices to pay for private school fees to educate their kids and it has payed off.
I think that Labour doesn’t not encourage success, they courage mediocre. Their policies have acted like hurdle to many people like my parents. If tax had been lower this would have been easier, it would also mean that more people could push themselves to be the best.
But Labour don’t want the best from people they want everyone to be equal. That’s why they are trying to shut down Grammar Schools, that’s why they have tried to ban competition in schools, thats why they favour state school students when applying to university. It’s gross social engineering. If we want to compete in the tough modern economic climate, we need to be the best, and we are not under Labour.
Life should be based on performance, not on excuses why you have failed.
View Comment
I understand your argument and to a degree agree with it. Like I’ve said many times, though I’ll be voting Labour, it’s only because there’s not a better alternative! In some respects it’s asking do I want my house burnt down or flooded? Hmm, well ideally neither, but if I HAD to choose I’d go with flooding since it tends to cause less damage. It really does suck that people like myself have to choose a party this way, but that’s politics!
You can’t possibly agree with everything the Conservatives plan to do (if they ever tell us that is :-))?
With regards education, I’d rather have a government that tries to help every child rather than a government that only helps the select few who have parents who can afford and are willing to pay for private education.
That does not mean I support Labours educational plans, (education standards are falling just as they fell during the Tory years), but I prefer them to what the Conservatives did when they were last in power which was underfund education.
I’d rather see the equivalent of a private education made available to children that are prepared to work for it. There are children from deprived backgrounds in poor quality schools that are working hard and will achieve some success. They should be rewarded for their hard work under difficult circumstances with the best education available. The children who don’t work hard, can stay where they are, life isn’t meant to be easy, if you want something in life you have to work hard for it, but when you do work hard you should be rewarded and currently there is little reward in working hard in a low quality state school.
It’s not that I don’t want to see every child do well. Fact is the parents of many children don’t give a flying rats ass about their kids future beyond getting them in the first job available at 16 so they can pay rent. Unfortunately with so many parents with that attitude (that was my mothers attitude BTW), you aren’t going to get many children seeing education as important.
Couple of real parental quotes for you:
Child studying for exams, parent says “what you studying that for, if you don’t know it by now you’ll never know it”.
16 year old discussing staying on to study A-Levels, parents first response “well I’m not paying for it”.
BTW these are real quotes from different families, second quote was from my mother (she votes Conservative BTW)! I didn’t realise education was important until I was 16, had totally messed up my school based education and had to study as a young adult (restarted at 17) to make up for my mistakes.
It’s no wonder we have so many young people who don’t consider education important and as long as we have so many parents in society who don’t care about their children’s education I don’t see how the government can help every child. You know at 16 I didn’t even know I could go to University, thought you had to have rich parents who could afford it (actually wasn’t that far from the truth under the Tories!).
I’d like to see a three tier state school system.
Schools for children who aren’t working hard, disruptive etc… You can’t force children to learn, so take them out of the mainstream where they damage other children’s education. If they change, give them a second chance.
Schools for children who want to work and fall in the mainstream: the majority would go to this type of school.
And schools for gifted students where the brightest and best are encouraged and pushed to achieve their maximum potential. I suppose along the grammar school model, but taking the top 10% of pupils, not 25%.
I don’t have a problem with private schools, if a family can afford a private education, lucky kids and that’s more resources for children who aren’t lucky enough to have well off parents and rely on state schools.
Note: I think the majority of state schools are rubbish, so much so we home educated all three of our kids, eldest (18) is at University, middle one (16 this month) rejected education at 14 and has been going to a low quality state school for a year (the state school is so bad they think he’s a genius!!!) and the youngest still educated at home and doing very well.
And what’s wrong with social engineering, isn’t that the whole point of government, to engineer a country to an image we want?
You might not like what the Labour party are trying to do (I don’t either), but that’s what governments do and if the Tories win they’ll put forward their own agenda that will try to take the country in another direction. Like the tax breaks to encourage marriage, blatant social engineering. If you disagree with social engineering per se, you might want to not vote at all because they are all at it.
David
View Comment
I completely agree with that system of education, and a grammar school would have been preferred over a private one in my personal case. But the whole idea of a school for the brightest pupils as you suggested is at odds with Labour’s core beliefs.
For them this would divide pupils into different groupings based on intelligence and hard work, therefore the best pupils would not be equal with the others, even if they share are both from deprived backgrounds.
My point is Labour like to see a child from a poor background outstripping their peers no more than public school boy outstripping his. They just want everyone to be the same, if it wasn’t in financial terms it would be founded in education or quality of life.
Grammar schools have been the target of the Labour government since elected in 1997, leaving none in my area, just a series of rubbish “acadamies” and comps. While to Conservatives don’t shout this from off the roofs, they are much more set on the idea than Labour will ever be.
View Comment
“the whole idea of a school for the brightest pupils as you suggested is at odds with Labour’s core beliefs. ”
Yes I know it’s not Labour ideology, but then it’s not Conservative ideology either since previous Conservative governments were not interested in the future of poor kids.
Labour wants every child to be treated equally (an admirable goal), but since the country doesn’t have bottomless pockets to spend on education that means pulling down the education of those that could achieve so much more because it would be unfair on the rest of the children.
Conservatives don’t really care what happens to the majority of children’s education, they’ll supply a very basic education to all (lower quality than Labours) and if you want better for your children, pay for it like they do for their children, but they’ll give you some tax breaks to make it easier since you aren’t using state schools.
I don’t like either approach as they both fail so many children, though the Conservatives approach fails more.
Labour fails to bring the best out of the brightest and don’t reward those who work hard, though the majority of children should do OK IF they wanted a good education (unfortunately so many children don’t want even a half decent education!). The Conservatives fail to help children that don’t have well off parents, means we had a two tier education system based on wealth with little mobility. The children of poor parents struggled to get an exceptional education under the Conservatives. The Conservatives failed the majority of children who didn’t have wealthy parents.
I believe strongly in merit/ability based rewards, if a child is gifted in an area, that gift should be encouraged by government as it’s good for the country long term. Imagine if people like Charles Darwin, Isac Newton, Einstein, Mozart, Charles Dickens, William Shakespeare etc… were 5 year olds with poor parents in Britain over the last 30 years. What sort of education would they receive, would it encourage their gifts or would they be lost to mediocrity because of a state education system that doesn’t recognise and certainly doesn’t encourage genius?
Then there’s the children who aren’t gifted per se, but work very hard on their education. Over the last 30 years of government, is this hard work recognised and rewarded by either the Conservatives or Labour? Unfortunately, no.
BTW I live in an area with an awful comprehensive school (was closed down at one point and will soon be an academy) and an OK grammar school (selective grammar school, takes the top 25% of pupils). I’ve looked at the grammar schools results and they aren’t that good considering they are a selective grammar school, though relative to the comprehensive school it’s in a different league. The rubbish school doesn’t even do proper A-Levels like Maths!
The problem I have with this system isn’t that the top pupils are given a better education, but the average pupil with less ability, but still willing to work hard are left with the idiots who for whatever reason don’t want a decent education and ruin it for everyone else. I would put the idiots in special schools, and I don’t mean special in the sense of mental inability to do the work, but special in the sense that they choose to be idiots and shouldn’t be in mainstream school disrupting pupils who want to work.
David
View Comment
“costing millions since bodger brown came in unelected”
Well your a bit of a hypocrite, aren’t you!!!
In other comments you say you’ll be voting UKIP.
So you think an elected MP like Gordon Brown is an unelected leader, but you’ll be voting for a party that has a lord as leader!
Remind us who voted for Lord Pearson to be a life peer again?
Or which groups of voters has kept him as a life peer since the 18th June 1990, how many democratic elections has Lord Pearson won over the last 20 years since becoming a Lord?
The answer is none, he is completely unelected by British people.
On the other hand Gordon Brown has been a democratically elected member of parliament since 1983.
David
View Comment
Why take a few lines to explain nothing when you can take pages……..David you nee/.d o become an MP.
what crap!!!!!! cut NOW NOW, NOWWWW!!!!!!
Can’t help but laugh at some of the comments on here. For starters, debt isn’t necessarily a bad thing, stop acting like Britain is a joke and all countries laugh at it because of its national debt. There are plenty more countries with a lot more national debt, they don’t see it as a crisis because they see debt comes from investment.
The conservatives idea of cutting the public sector leaving huge unemployment which crucially has not been picked up by the private sector has weakened the economy – which in turn reduces taxes because people are earning less. so whilst the government is getting less money in through tax and giving out more money on benefits, it is also failing to help out the deficit. YAY!
Would you rather have a strong booming economy with everyone not feeling threatened about being made redundant. The more we spend, the more money goes into the economy, the more jobs we have. Positive multiplier effect, Labour were around when the WORLD WIDE recession happened, so stop blaming it on Blair when really its origins begin with the American banks. Yet we live in fear, growth doesn’t come from fear, it comes from confidence. Cameron’s ideas of the economy are woeful, he had a speech lined up at Conservative convention, economists told him it would actually make the economy worst so he changed it at last second. Osborne and Cameron are clueless.
The deficit is fine, in my opinion it is better for us as a country to be in debt than to let people not have genuine human necessities that were being under funded by Thatcher, the main article is absolutely spot on about that. I mean, students going to university are going to be left with massive debt which the conservatives see as a good thing? So what’s the difference with some national debt? Oh its okay we can just fund a royal yacht.
Labour may have created debt but they did it through funding the NHS and other absolutely vital things to those who can’t afford to go private, allowing them the quality of life that every single human being should have. When you read comments like ‘how did they get over here’ referring to immigrants. Maybe that person is ‘here’ because they are skilled enough worker to play a role at a hospital. We need these workers why? because we don’t have the expertise in this country, because we had a generation of possible doctors and such destroyed by Thatchers lack of funding towards education, ruling out opportunism for that generation.
How did ‘they’ get over here? They, are the same as you. Every single human being, you are made up the same, you were created the same. ‘They’ may not have had the CHANCE of being born into a wealthy family. I wonder if you’d complain if you were undergoing heart surgery and it was a nationality apart from English. Or would you tell Bupa to get you another?… Get your head out of the daily mail and think about the modern world we live in, you probably want to bring back the British Empire and invade the Falklands. eurghh.
Oh dear.
would tories have brought in excessive and unwarranted immigrants to burden finances? – cant be any worse than what labout has done!
Funny story; the European Communities Act 1972 which brought the UK into the European Union was enacted by Edward Heath’s conservative government; not labour. So unless you are proposing that Labour should have left the EU, which I do hope you are not, then there is not much Labour could have done.
Regardless, entering the EU was a good move in my opinion, and I think we are all too quick to forget what Conservative policies really care about.
View Comment
One answer to all the UK financial problems. When the last Tory gov were in power we had billions of gold reserves. After two years of Labour gov we had none left. End of story. propping up NHS, Schools, civil service. All the pre election promises had to be paid for and they were by this. That left UK ltd with no capital. Not difficult to understand. Since then everything has just escalated the problem.
View Comment
And you can make a similar argument for the way the Tories sold off many of our nationalised industries on the cheap. Selling the family silver I believe is the term for what the Tories did.
I have to say regarding gold prices, why don’t the Conservatives and those that keep bringing up the sale of gold go into commodity trading, apparently you can all predict gold prices years in advance which could make you all a bloody fortune as commodity traders :-)
Maybe you and the Tories could work for one of those Cash 4 Gold type companies that buy broken gold jewelery :-)
David
View Comment
Reasons never to vote Labour:
ID Cards/National Identity Register
Banning smoking in pubs/clubs, thus breaching civil liberties and causing massive damage to the industry with closures every week (of course, Westminster bars are exempt from the ban)
Breaking promise of a referendum on the EU
Giving away EU rebate after promising not to in return for, well, nothing
Increasing taxes for poorer people (and that’s without taxes on things like cigarettes/alcohol/petrol)
Using “unelected hereditary peers” as an excuse to remove opposition in the House of Lords by filling it with Labour Lords
Selling off our gold reserves at rock bottom prices
Giving billions in aid to those who do not need/deserve it (both at home and abroad)
A New Deal programme that does not work (they give you the qualification but employers want several years experience!!!!!!!)
Allowing Scottish/Welsh MPs to vote on English matters but not vice versa (because Labour rely on Scottish/Welsh MPs to govern)
One of the Budgets “meeting the aspirations of the British people” (what arrogant people Labour MPs are)
View Comment
“Banning smoking in pubs/clubs, thus breaching civil liberties”
What about the civil liberties of the employees in pubs and clubs forced to breath in secondhand smoke which causes cancer? Wasn’t Roy Castle a non smoker who died from lung cancer that was attributed to playing in smoke filled clubs!
People who want to smoke can smoke, people who don’t want to smoke should not be forced to breath in harmful cigarette smoke in their places of work.
The above concept protects the civil liberties of those who want to smoke (it’s not a ban on smoking per se) and those that don’t. Or do you believe non smokers should be forced to breath in harmful chemicals just because smokers want to risk their own health and are so addicted to cigarettes can’t handle a few hours without smoking?
David
View Comment
David,
A couple of questions..
“Yes I know it’s not Labour ideology, but then it’s not Conservative ideology either since previous Conservative governments were not interested in the future of poor kids.”
I don’t actually remember schools being underfunded (I do remember a few uninspiring teachers though!), that’s not to say they weren’t but policies and manifestos are changed to the needs of now rather than before.
“Conservatives don’t really care what happens to the majority of children’s education, they’ll supply a very basic education to all (lower quality than Labours)” – how do you know this?
Or are you saying that you just don’t believe their pledges on education based on their previous governance?
I read their policy and it does talk about a major shake-up but I can’t see how you would think that it would be lower quality and worse than it is now. Am I missing something?
I just find it bewildering how anyone could trust ANYTHING that Labour state they will do after the last election and after the most fundamental lie of all (dare I say it??) the EU Referendum. They have proven they will say anything to get elected and just can’t be trusted, period.
View Comment
Education was underfunded under the last Conservative government. Or if you don’t want to put it that way, education is better funded under Labour. I understand Labour’s funding of Universities for example is 25% higher than in 1997.
“Or are you saying that you just don’t believe their pledges on education based on their previous governance?”
Yes, I am basing my judgement of the Conservatives on past experience under them (the alternative is believing what little they say). I don’t think they’ve changed, look at the negative campaign posters they just created! So much for the Conservatives no longer being the nasty party! Didn’t David Cameron say he wasn’t going to use that type of negative campaign tactics anymore?
“I just find it bewildering how anyone could trust ANYTHING that Labour state they will do after the last election”
Correct me if I’m wrong, but you don’t believe a word Labour says, well I don’t believe a word the Conservatives say either. I’ll also add I take what Labour say with a big pinch of salt as well, so I’m not trying to pretend Labour are completely honest (they all lie).
Since they all lie we have to go on what they actually do when in power. For example Labour brought in the national minimum wage while the Tories voted against it at every opportunity. Suggests to me Labour cares more about low paid workers than the Tories do.
During this recession Labour has pumped a lot of money into the economy to protect workers from the recession (costly as it is). Under the Tory recessions, the Conservatives slashed public spending causing mass unemployment and the destruction of many communities. While Labour was trying to protect jobs via the stimulus package, the Conservatives wanted to cut public spending ASAP and let the recession take it’s course.
I don’t like this Labour government, but they have shown they care more about the ordinary British family than the Conservatives of the past did and the Conservatives of the present do.
I would like an alternative to Labour and the Conservatives that could win the election, but the only choice is the Liberal Democrats and though I like some of what I see, they aren’t going to win the next general election. If we had the alternative vote system now I’d vote Lib Dems 1 and Labour 2 and nothing for 3….
I watched the Chancellors Debate on CH4 tonight and I think Vince Cable (Lib Dem) came off best by a long margin. Alistair Darling and George Osbourne where unimpressive IMO.
David
View Comment
I understand what you’re saying and you have made a couple of valid points on Conservatives cutting public spending. I agree with you that they do all fib! However, I don’t think any of the parties (bar Labour) can honestly state how they will improve the books until they actually get into office.
Do you not think that it is a fair point though that when the last Conservative government first came into power they had to take drastic action to bring the country out of the economic distress it was under at the time?
Also, whilst they may have under-funded in certain aspects of the economy that this was because they only spent what was affordable without borrowing billions to do it?
Health and education have enjoyed massive increases in investment and the expansion of the public sector but can the country really afford to continue running up debt to maintain it? At some point the credit lines will dry up and any Government will have to manage its own income in the same way that individuals have to manage on theirs.
“I don’t like this Labour government, but they have shown they care more about the ordinary British family than the Conservatives of the past did and the Conservatives of the present do.” I completely disagree with this, unfortunately Labour has made the financial viability for the break-up in the family unit too easy and caused single families to be better off than complete families.
The minimum wage is a double-edged sword really, it reduces jobs (a business will only employ what it can afford) but brings up wage levels whilst also aggravating inflation through price rises of businesses trying re-coup their labour costs.
View Comment
“I don’t think any of the parties (bar Labour) can honestly state how they will improve the books until they actually get into office.”
I agree which tells us Labour are avoiding telling us the truth and the Conservatives are talking total BS.
Neither of them want to give us real information because it looses votes. Here’s an example of a mistake: David Cameron has trashed Labour’s proposed efficiency savings, now George Osbourne is using them as a basis for a tax cut! Worse government debt EVER and the Tories are talking tax cuts again, the Conservatives have not changed one bit IMO.
It leaves us with the rare occasion when they make a mistake and actually state their plans or looking at their past actions.
I tend to go on past actions as those are real events, not what they might do in the future (the Tories can’t give us a tax cut, what they’ll give with one hand they’ll take back with the other). I find Labour better for more people on the NHS, working rights, even education and I think the education in this country SUCKS!!! than the Conservatives.
Labour make SOOOO many mistakes, but I find they care far more than the Conservatives.
“Do you not think that it is a fair point though that when the last Conservative government first came into power they had to take drastic action to bring the country out of the economic distress it was under at the time?”
Yes it’s a fair point, do you think it’s a fair point they went too far and made major mistakes with the economy that pushed us into recession twice?
Wasn’t a lot of the North Sea Oil revenue wasted on unemployment benefits because of Tory mismanagement?
At least this recession is not the fault of the government, of course the economy can always be managed better and I find it embarrassing a person like Gordon Brown when chancellor didn’t see the bank sector problem to such a degree to do something about it. He says now he was trying to make changes to the banking sector but it was world wide changes he was after, but it didn’t happen so clearly he didn’t see what a very, very small number of people did see coming (I understand Vince Cable was warning of this years ago, though he didn’t see it being this bad!).
Still it wasn’t a government caused recession and I think they’ve taken a bold step with the risk of a very expensive stimulus package that has kept a lot of people in work. The Tories would have rather let the recession bottom out as fast as possible causing far more unemployment and then try to cut their way out of recession like they have in past recessions and that takes a decade for our country to recover from!
I am thankful Labour was in power when the recession hit.
David
View Comment
“Also, whilst they may have under-funded in certain aspects of the economy that this was because they only spent what was affordable without borrowing billions to do it? ”
You make it sound like the current government debt started 13 years ago and Labour’s been adding to it ever since. This is a new government debt, the country was doing well until the credit crunch/recession and the extra money was going into services rather than tax breaks for the rich. 13 years of Labour government investment was not on the back of government borrowing, the current borrowing requirements are a direct result of the banks greed and stupidity!
I find it interesting that the current Tory campaign posters state the gap between the rich and the poor has widened under 13 years of Labour.
Lets assume that’s true. Since we now have a national minimum wage and there’s tax credits to top up low wages, what’s also true is the poor are not as poor as they used to be. This tells me the poor have done well under Labour, but the rich have done even better hence the widening gap. Would you disagree with this argument?
The economy was run quite well for business, we are one of the top countries for attracting foreign investment which is how a lot of jobs are created in the private sector. Look at our financial sector, yes it caused the mess we are in now, but it’s also a major part of our economy, more than it was under the Conservatives. If Britain was such a terrible place for business we wouldn’t see such a strong financial sector. Money would be moving out of London and it hasn’t.
David
View Comment
“The minimum wage is a double-edged sword really, it reduces jobs (a business will only employ what it can afford) but brings up wage levels whilst also aggravating inflation through price rises of businesses trying re-coup their labour costs.”
The Conservatives voted against the national minimum wage because they believed it would increase the cost of doing business in Britain (which was true) and would cost millions of jobs (which was wrong).
The Conservatives was wrong, the country lost low paid sweatshop type jobs (I recall reading a figure of around 50,000 jobs lost) and put a lot more money in the pockets of ordinary working people. With more money in their pockets working class people who used to be on £1.20 an hour or less went out with that extra money and spent it in British businesses driving the economy.
It’s basic economics, a person who earns more, spends more and we don’t exactly have a “save for a rainy day” society, so the average man and woman in the street tend to spend most of what they earn.
Add it up Sarah, if you earn £1.20 an hour (I’ve been on as low as £1 an hour) you do not have the money to buy anything beyond the basics to survive. That means people are not buying luxuries like big screen TVs, expensive cars, etc… and that means less money flowing through the economy creating jobs (money sat in the bank account of a rich businessman does not generate jobs).
David
View Comment
(On the comment of doomsayers putting down their own country…)
We’re so fed up that we’ve just moved to Australia, so yes, we’ve voted with our feet. And thanking every minute of being here. Despite the fact that we’ve lost 1/4 of our assets due to the plummeting pound. It’s worth it.
I have never voted Conservative but certainly would this time, just to make sure Labour get the hell out of there. Yes, they’re all awful. Fact is though that once any government has been in power a while it gets hopelessly corrupt. I’ve always thrown away my vote on the Lib Dems even though there’s no hope, but if no-one does that there never will be – however this time round it’s just too imperative to get Labour out. Sorry.
And yes, throwing vast amounts of money into an NHS that is utterly overrun with pointless bureaucracy is a complete waste of time. Three times now I’ve had various appointment papers mailed through to me with up to eight pages of print detailing my ‘choices’ of hospital and how I can ‘choose’ and how to do it online, etc etc – completely useless as the only actual option is the local hospital and you can only make appointments by phone – this is absolutely typical of the whole government.
We look at people in Britain and we see automatons going through the motions of life, doing as little as they can, not caring how they waste time, effort and energy, not bothering to question ridiculous rigmaroles and bureaucratic mountains, churning away in glum and ever-diminishing circles. We look around here and people do their work, take pride in it, educate and care for their kids to the best of their ability, and then go off and have a jolly good time without moping about and yawning in front of the TV. Hmm… tough choice. Yes, the choices of government are appalling. Who put them there though? Who doesn’t complain? It’s the public, that most apathetic of beast who couldn’t even push out that most ridiculous and most obvious of useless cash-cows for government favours and nepotism, the ID cards. Ugh. And yes, by leaving the country we are helping to fulfil the gloomsters’ prophecy of a shell of a country. It’s called a brain drain, remember? It’s what happens when a country stamps on anyone who tries to improve themselves and make something in life. We’re not the first, and we won’t be the last. Vote Conservative this time round and just get those suckers out of there.
View Comment
Good for you Vesna! Welcome to expathood!
It’s a funny feeling when you first arrive in your new country, almost like you’ve just woken up!
You can still register to vote though as an expat.